tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post6014133880774741257..comments2016-01-23T10:29:48.114-05:00Comments on Wine Ophelia: Natural Wine is a GimmickRaelinn Dotyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01752806756472329229noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-50894627741614676802010-01-09T10:07:09.898-05:002010-01-09T10:07:09.898-05:00Great post Ophelia.
I would love to exchange with ...Great post Ophelia.<br />I would love to exchange with you sometimes.<br />Cheers,<br />Jean-Marc Espinasse<br />Domaine Rouge-Bleu <br />Twitter : rougebleuwinesJean-Marc Espinassehttp://a-la-recherche-du-vin.typepad.com/rouge_bleu/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-28174378967689249082010-01-06T13:55:43.593-05:002010-01-06T13:55:43.593-05:00Great post and comments. I agree with much that h...Great post and comments. I agree with much that has been said in both. <br /><br />I think that the key is transparency. I really like the approach that Joel Salatin (not a winemaker, but has some similar challenges) uses on his farm. Producers who do a good job of educating consumers on what they are doing, and why, will be successful. Most people are getting to the point where their bullshit-o-meter starts going off when they hear buzzwords like "natural" and "organic", but if you explain or show them what they are doing, people really want what is being offered by these producers. Ultimately though, some people care and some don't. There is a market for both. Some people just want to pick up the bottle of Yellowtail at the grocery store, while others want to spend their wine dollars on wines that have been more thoughtfully produced.<br /><br />Thanks a lot for the great post, and for the list of people who "get it". I will definitely be checking them out.Ben Simonshttp://www.vinotology.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-89165827835577952612010-01-06T02:15:38.467-05:002010-01-06T02:15:38.467-05:00Hi Raelinn -
I share your experiences with genui...Hi Raelinn - <br /><br />I share your experiences with genuine natural wine makers - I am certain they would be bewildered at the time spent on definitional debate for a life & farming style that they view as (dare I say it?) natural.<br /><br />We work with the same definition of natural wine that you've provided - accepting the potential flaws and footnotes that go with it in favour of a label that in the least case denotes intent. The wines I list at artisan & vine are the ones that shout (or sometimes ooze or occasionally sweetly whisper) their heritage from the glass: they are the embodiment of the terroir, fruit & passion from which they are made.<br /><br />I struggle to think of many categories of anything where the borderline between raising awareness and selling a story is not endemic. As a consumer, I want to have the choice of whether I drink a wine made from what is inherent to a piece of land vs a wine 'enriched' with flavour additives or modifiers. To that end, I am delighted with any wine list or sommelier who can describe the origins and ingredients of a wine I might order. Misleading advertising that construes peripheral environmental programmes (meritable as they may be) as an indicator of a 'natural' wine is an unhappy, though not entirely unexpected, side effect of the increasing awareness of natural wine. <br /><br />On the upside: had you not seen the overly packaged 'green' wine, your inner evangelist may not have felt as compelled to write an excellent blog post that has served to increase transparency on wine making techniques and ethics just that little more.Kathryn, artisan and vine, Londonhttp://www.artisanandvine.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-66670705208538388562010-01-05T19:15:30.336-05:002010-01-05T19:15:30.336-05:00Matt,
Thanks for taking the time to read and comme...Matt,<br />Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. I think everyone should be allowed their own preferences and opinions, of course; but I agree with you that some of the elitism, snobbery and alienation that goes on is not the best way to get a point across.Raelinn Dotyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01752806756472329229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-9915438625112747372010-01-05T18:53:34.294-05:002010-01-05T18:53:34.294-05:00I am in agreement with much of what Shea wrote. I...I am in agreement with much of what Shea wrote. I'm all for the concepts of "natural" winemaking- much of the time they produce superior wines and the farming practices are best for the environment. What I don't like is the dogmatic rhetoric surrounding the issue. It's not always a black/white issue. <br /><br />If a winemaker farms biodynamically, organically, or at least sustainably- but uses innoculated yeast, or some new oak, or filters the wines etc- is this reason to pre-judge the wines? I think the dogma surrounding the issue among certain writers is what causes others to call BS. <br /><br />The same question applies to high alcohol wines- at times a high alcohol wine might be a better wine. The high alcohol issue is always lumped in with natural wine... what about a natural producer who produces a high abv wine- does this pass the litmus test? There are plenty of gray areas, and natural wines can be advocated for without alienating others...Matt Mauldin https://www.blogger.com/profile/08730509895080535690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-70382415530633922012010-01-05T14:49:18.279-05:002010-01-05T14:49:18.279-05:00Thanks for commenting Ron. I agree completely. Co...Thanks for commenting Ron. I agree completely. Consumers will have to do their homework!Raelinn Dotyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01752806756472329229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-24247099845253339832010-01-05T14:38:41.318-05:002010-01-05T14:38:41.318-05:00Today there is a small group of consumers who make...Today there is a small group of consumers who make this a priority in choosing wines. Suspect this might increase with time and will also create more marketing fakes too.<br /><br />Circles back to consumers making the effort to know the true source and story behind wines. Also new opportunity for trusted authorities to evolve and guide consumers through buying decisions.<br /><br />New flow of information today makes the old wild west days more alive than ever.<br /><br />Keep your drum going!Ron McFarlandhttp://www.nocookiecutterwines.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-1034251766664306472010-01-05T14:08:40.587-05:002010-01-05T14:08:40.587-05:00Well then bloggers should take up the torch and st...Well then bloggers should take up the torch and start and continue the debate on the proper footing!Sheahttp://www.justgrapeswine.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-33477473980902237752010-01-05T13:34:30.662-05:002010-01-05T13:34:30.662-05:00Shea, you put it better than I could have. I do h...Shea, you put it better than I could have. I do have a visceral reaction to the "moralizing and incoherent claim" you refer to. "Bullshit!" would be it.<br /><br />You frame the debate correctly, I think. But passions and the need to burnish one's sanctimony run high; I don't expect much nuanced discussion of the issue.Terencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14505984067343124098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-88900560822938000302010-01-05T12:49:11.430-05:002010-01-05T12:49:11.430-05:00Thanks Shea... I appreciate your input. Good point...Thanks Shea... I appreciate your input. Good points.Raelinn Dotyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01752806756472329229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3991493061085574504.post-69050719819012198862010-01-05T12:37:35.626-05:002010-01-05T12:37:35.626-05:00Interesting read. I like your last few paragraphs ...Interesting read. I like your last few paragraphs especially because they point to a larger issue. The farmers/winemakers doing the best job along these lines don't need a label. So, why are we calling such wines 'natural wines' at all? I don't think that's a good description since it has major philosophical problems that lead most people to say "bullshit". I.e. is 'natural' opposed to 'human made' - if so, then how can wine be 'natural' at all since humans make it. Does 'natural' mean minimal 'human' interference? If so, how do you define minimal, and why would using wild yeast rather than commercial yeast be minimal - can you assign values to particular additives and say they are more or less 'natural'. This becomes tricky and not all that helpful.<br /><br />So, in the end it seems to me that 'natural' wine is about process more than anything. It is a particular definition or understanding of process. It is not, and should not be, a moralizing and incoherent claim that some wines are 'natural' and have little human interference while others are 'human made' and 'artificially produced'. No, the focus should be on how wines are made and the ingredients used to make them, not about the natural unnatural debate. As Sean Thackrey says well, it is both naive and ludicrous to ignore the hand of the wine-maker/farmer/human in the process of making wine. It is fundamental. The real question is how to understand the role of that individual(s) in the process.<br /><br />Shea<br />@justgrapeswineSheahttp://www.justgrapeswine.comnoreply@blogger.com